Is the AG a moissanite?
[-] The following 3 users Like mmascall's post:
  • Ginger, MrsK, Queen of Sparkle
09-16-2016, 06:44 PM,
#1
Exclamation  Is the AG a moissanite?
A question has been posted on another forum regarding the AG. There seems to be some confusion as to what the AG actually is - is it a moissanite or SiC? 

I'm no expert but, according to Moissaniteco.com, the AG IS a moissanite. In fact, it is the same material as the F1, namely 4H moissanite. SiC is called moissanite and also called carborundum. SiC has 250 crystal polytypes of which 6H and 4H are but two. 6H is the polytype that FB and classic moissanite are made from and 4H is the polytype for the AG and F1.

A poster on this other forum was, I think, insulted that an AG would be compared to lowly moissanite and used the two polytypes of carbon (diamond and graphite) as a comparison. Diamond and graphite are scientifically recognized and accepted names for different crystal structures of carbon. Unfortunately, the various SiC polytypes presently don't have names to differentiate them - they are all moissanite and all carborundum, that's it. 

If you need to insure a ring with an AG in it, as per Wink, I would definitely make sure that they add Amora Gem moissanite and reference the report included with the stone. 

TL;DR - Yes, Virginia, the AG is a 4H moissanite with a very pretty cut.  Shy

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  • missy_lko, mmascall
09-16-2016, 07:25 PM,
#2
RE: Is the AG a moissanite?
I clicked to answer, yes to the question. However, I see you've provided some great information here. Thank you for sharing! Big Grin

One day, I'll be a crazy old lady weighed down by all my baubles and it will be glorious.
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[-] The following 4 users Like jenncent's post:
  • lovedogs, mmascall, MrsK, Slick
09-16-2016, 07:56 PM,
#3
RE: Is the AG a moissanite?
Thank you. I am one of the confused ones. I seem to remember Less saying that AG SiC was patent pending and no one else could use that crystal structure, but I find the whole thing confusing. And I have no problems with the word moissanite. I don't think it is insulting to any gem to be called a moissanite, but I have always loved moissy.

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09-16-2016, 11:51 PM,
#4
RE: Is the AG a moissanite?
(09-16-2016, 07:56 PM)jenncent Wrote: Thank you.  I am one of the confused ones.  I seem to remember Less saying that AG SiC was patent pending and no one else could use that crystal structure, but I find the whole thing confusing.  And I have no problems with the word moissanite.  I don't think it is insulting to any gem to be called a moissanite, but I have always loved moissy.

Yup.  That happened.

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[-] The following 8 users Like sarahl2's post:
  • Ginger, lovedogs, minmorocco, mmascall, MrsK, Queen of Sparkle, stardust, wiigal
09-17-2016, 01:36 AM,
#5
RE: Is the AG a moissanite?
Given the mass confusion about what it is, hows its made, who is even making it, I have to hand it to Less: he truly is the great wizard behind the curtain.  So lets pick this apart.

What is the silicon carbide polytype used to create the Amora Gem?

Lets take a look at one of the BTD patents
https://www.google.com/patents/US20130327090

"The SiC gemstone of claim 1 wherein the SiC is selected from a group comprising 6H, 4H, 2H, and 3C SiC"

6H - Classic Moissanite and Forever Brilliant Moissanite is made of 6H Moissanite.  We know its not 6H.

3C - The cubic form of Moissanite!  It would be cool in theory because it is not doubly refractive, but the band gap is so low that it can only be a vivid yellow.  So its not 3C

2H - Can it be 2H?  2H is promising because the band gap is the same as the 4H so it can be made colorless.  However it is 100% hexagonal.  What does that mean?  4H and 6H are 50% hexagonal.  There is an axis along which 4H and 6H are cut so that the double refraction (hexagonality) isn't seen when viewed through the face of the stone.  Given 2H is 100% hexagonal, the facet doubling would be viewed no matter which way you view it.  

Therefore what is left? 4H

When BTD launched the AG (4H SiC), it was different than the Moissanite (6H SiC) that was currently available on the market.  Therefore the claim that it wasn't "Moissanite" was splitting hairs, but technically correct in that it had slightly different properties than 6H SiC.  Less was convinced that 4H SiC was so expensive and difficult to grow that C&C would never carry it, and instead forever settle on 6H SiC given their history of focusing on the cost over quality.  The problem was that this strategy was blown to pieces when C&C launched their own 4H SiC Moissanite last September (Forever One).  At that point, if AG isn't Moissanite, than Forever One Moissanite isn't Moissanite either.  

Faced with this dilemma, what did BTD do?  It doubled down on the AG-is-not-a-Moissanite.  Given DiamondAngel's absurd rant and numerous misstatements about AG and Moissanite a couple of days ago, clearly she doesn't know WTF it is.  Sadly this helps create the Diamond Nexus'like confusion around the AG stone.  Of course BTD could just come clean, but the current strategy seems to be working, and colluding with its resellers and forcing them to tow the line lest they be cut off clearly has worked thus far.  

Many people assume that BTD is even growing the crystal themselves.  A few years ago they bought the equipment to do so, a $500k+ investment, but supposedly it fell flat.  At least two sources have told me that they have been buying from Norstel:

http://www.norstel.com/products/white-si...oissanite/

as do a lot of the indian Moissanite producers. Norstel sells the whiter 4H crystal Moissanite at a much higher premium.  The Indian manufacturers settle on the more yellow rough because its cheaper.  BTD buys the more expensive crystal, which is likely part of the reason the AG is so expensive.  The irony of this is that Norstel is a former C&C supplier of Moissanite crystal. So much for NOT being Moissanite.  

I challenge somebody to ask Less via his forum if the AG is 100% made in the US.  Push him to confirm or deny its 4H SiC.  And then sit back and watch your post either be ignored or deleted. I have posted similar questions, and my posts were deleted and I was banned.  

Over the next year or two you will see more and more Moissanite sources enter the market, and they are only making 4H SiC.  C&C is not making any more 6H and is liquidating what is has left.  Eventually the only Moissanite available will be 4H SiC.  And then what?  Will AG still not be "Moissanite"?

On a side note, if you care what GIA says, they wrote a paper in 1997 about Moissanite, what it was and its properties. It discussed the many polytypes of Moissanite, but stated it considered all to be Moissanite given their similar properties. It identified both 4H and 6H SiC, but pointed out that at the time 4H was only grown for semiconductor uses. But I do find it interesting that 4H SiC is really not NEW. It was made and discussed by GIA nearly 20 years ago. However the technology at the time wasn't available to grow it in the pure form it is today. If you want to read the paper, google: SYNTHETIC MOISSANITE: A NEW DIAMOND SUBSTITUTE

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09-17-2016, 03:18 AM,
#6
RE: Is the AG a moissanite?
DiamondAngel also said that Moissanite winds up chipping, scratching & cracking very easily.What is the Mohs scale of hardness for Amora Gem & also for Moissanite?
I have always believed that Moissy was an heirloom stone.According to her statement of chipping,cracking etc this is not a lifetime stone?
She says that Amora Gem is "tougher" What does that mean exactly?

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09-17-2016, 06:18 AM,
#7
RE: Is the AG a moissanite?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_carbide#Jewelry

I found this interesting reading especially the section under Discovery & Early Production.Production .(Not the steel production)

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09-17-2016, 08:04 AM,
#8
RE: Is the AG a moissanite?
Informative post, a real eye opener @sarahl2

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09-17-2016, 08:38 AM,
#9
RE: Is the AG a moissanite?
Thank you @sarahl2! Great post!

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[-] The following 2 users Like jenncent's post:
  • Ginger, stardust
09-17-2016, 08:51 AM,
#10
Is the AG a moissanite?
Sarah that was really clear. Thank you. Admittedly I was very confused about what was 4H and what was not, and really I don't even care, lol. I just want to make sure my future moissy purchases are from 4H material. AG or otherwise. I think I will come down to cut, and people will purchase the cut that is the most appealing to them.

Queen of sparkle, moissy in general is tougher than diamond. The problem with the old stuff from C&C was that the girdles were cut so thin, and the cuts in general were shallow. It made the stone more prone to chips and breakage. There is a difference between toughness and hardness though, and diamond is more hard.


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